The Upside Down Kingdom - A Leadership Journey with Roy Moran
Episode Summary
In this episode, Brian and Cory interview Roy Moran and explore the paradoxes of leadership in the context of Jesus' teachings. We discuss the shift from celebrity culture to a more humble, servant-oriented leadership style, emphasizing the importance of empowering ordinary people to lead and make disciples. The conversation highlights global perspectives on discipleship, the role of humility in leadership, and the vision for future leadership that prioritizes community and collaboration over status.
Key Themes & Takeaways
1. The Painful Shift from Celebrity to Servant
Roy shares how his traditional church training centered him as the “hub,” unintentionally building a platform others couldn’t imitate.
Movement leadership requires removing yourself from the center—where nothing depends on you, but everything benefits from your presence.
"You create lieutenants, not peers, when you lead from personality and gifting."
2. The Power of Presence—and Absence
Roy explains the concept of “bow wake” leadership—your influence arrives before you do.
Learning to intentionally step out of spaces allowed others to rise.
Sometimes the most catalytic thing you can do is not show up.
3. Global Lessons: Status Kills Movements
In many places, including Africa, Western church culture has exported a title-based ethos: from Pastor to Bishop to Apostle.
Movement leaders like Isla Tassi model servant-hearted leadership: no title, no spotlight, no logo.
A refusal to brand or self-promote creates space for the Spirit and raises local leaders.
4. Decentralization Fuels Multiplication
Movements thrive when ordinary people say, “I can do that.”
Roy contrasts his own leadership style with women like Margaret in Kenya—an oral learner leading hundreds of churches.
Simple, reproducible methods like Discovery Bible Study enable rapid, deep multiplication.
5. Leadership as a Verb, Not a Noun
Roy challenges the idea of “leaders” and “leadership” as titles to attain.
Leading is about influence and obedience to the Spirit—not credentials, charisma, or control.
"Stop talking about leaders. Start talking about leading."
6. A Word to Ordinary Disciple-Makers
You don’t need a logo, platform, or formal title.
Avoid the trap of recreating a small version of Sunday church.
Live and lead in a way where others can say, “I could do what you do.”
7. The Dream for Kansas City (and Beyond)
Roy envisions a city-wide cadre of leaders with no ego, just kingdom focus.
Like Aslan stripping the dragon skin in Narnia, it’s painful—but freeing.
True power comes when identity is rooted in Jesus alone.
Final Thoughts
Movements grow when we refuse the ring of power. Roy’s story is both a confession and a commission—to live hidden, lead simply, and raise up others. What matters most is not whether people remember your name, but whether they can say, “I could do that too.”
